Zahra Huber- Host of Breaking Pita with Zee Podcast & Activist

Zahra Huber is a former journalist who now hosts her own podcast, Breaking Pita with Zee. She's a writer and an outspoken activist. She speaks about her experiences as an Arab-American Muslim woman and covers important, and sometimes sensitive, topics that affect the community. 

Zahra has always been someone who's pushed the boundaries and she isn't afraid to tell it like it is. Her fearlessness and straight-forward nature are part of what makes her podcast so unique. 

 Read on to find out about what Zahra thinks of racism in the Arab world, her experience growing up in a strict Muslim household, and what she's looking forward to in 2020. 

Tell me about your childhood. What were you like growing up?

I was very rebellious because my father was extremely strict. He was a very strict Arab with Muslim traditions and I always just rebelled because I was very independent and had my own opinions and thoughts. So I was kind of the black sheep in the family. I always broke the rules and started trends too. 

For instance, I took my scarf off and then my sister got comfortable and took hers off too. So, I was always the first to break the rules, and then everyone else followed after. 

I know that you grew up in NY. What made you decide to move to Michigan?

I grew up in Queens. I moved in 2002, when I was 19. My dad wanted to be around more Arabs- to be around the culture more.

And what was it like when you first moved here?

I hated it. I hated it so much. Now I’ve grown to love it, but I came from New York where people are from all types of different cultures and religions and no one’s really quick to judge. I had friends from all over the world. 

When I came here [to Dearborn] it was all Arabs- but like a separation of Arabs. It was just really frustrating, because I feel like the diversity was lacking. I feel like there’s diversity here, but it’s very separated diversity. 

That’s definitely something that I’ve noticed and then I’ve also seen that in comparison to other big cities it seems like people mix a bit more. I feel like it’s also gotten a lot better though. 

It has, but it still feels more divided here. I still miss that about New York. 

Do you think that racism is still a big issue in the Arab community?

Oh, absolutely. That’s another thing that was really disappointing here, is the first time that I heard the word “abeed”, which means slave in Arabic. And that’s how some Arabs, young and old alike, refer to black people. I’ve had countless arguments with people… like that’s not the word for black in Arabic. The younger generations are meshing more, but even in the Arab culture the darker the skin... Everybody wants to be light. 

I even noticed that when I was traveling overseas in Asia. All of those skin whitening creams and all of the advertisements portrayed super light skin as the beauty ideal. 

It’s changing with the younger cultures, but I feel like the older generations still value that. But then also if you’re black and muslim it’s still an issue. There’s still stereotypes about them. 

What are some of the experiences with racism that you’ve had? 

My mom is Austrian, so when we would go to Austria, and I was wearing the scarf, people would tell me to go home, which is really funny because I was born in Vienna, so like I am home. People would talk crap about me in German, but I speak German. 

I didn’t experience it as much in NY, since I feel like people are more open. Obviously, after 9/11 I had mixed remarks. Some people would come up and say how they love Muslims and they know we’re not all terrorists. It was weird, but they had good intentions. I’ve been called raghead, I’ve been asked if I was wearing a curtain on my head, I’ve been called a terrorist… just stupid things. 

Do you think that was because you were wearing a hijab?

Absolutely, I don’t get anything at all without my hijab. I think because I blend in more. When I was wearing a hijab I was wearing a symbol of my religion.

You mentioned in one of your podcast episodes (where you interviewed a friend in journalism) about how you were proud to be an Arab-American working in media, but at the same time you both felt like you were pigeon-holed or limited to mainly stories that involved the Arab community and that as much as you were eager to correct incorrect narratives, you also didn’t want to be the only one covering these stories.  How do you think employers in journalism (or other fields) can be better about this?

Yeah, so I think people expected me to behave a certain way because I wore a hijab. I think they expected this super religious, demure, quiet woman and they were surprised that I was so outspoken. I was the only Muslim, not only in my office, but in the entire building. 

I loved being able to change the narrative on Arabs and Muslims when it was incorrect, but sometimes it did feel like I was being limited. Like I’m not the only one who should be able to write about a Ramadan festival… Also, I think employers can just be more conscientious about having employees from other backgrounds. Even little things like I only eat halal, and everytime we’d get pizza they’d order pepperoni pizza and then ask me why I couldn’t just pick off the pepperoni. I explained so many times about halal and that I don’t eat pork.

I mean that’s so crazy to me because I feel like people are accommodating for vegetarians and gluten allergies, so why can’t they be more accommodating and aware for someone that eats halal...What advice would you give to a young woman who’s looking to get started in journalism?

Definitely do a lot of research and internships. Try and write as much as possible. So I graduated from U of M, and no one knew that I was a college graduate when I got there, because they don’t check your graduation. They don’t care what courses you took in college- they look at what you’ve written, what you’ve done, how well you write.. Even if you work for a tiny newspaper where you’re bringing the editor coffee for three months- do it! 

And then when you are in the newsroom working as a journalist… put yourself out there. We had interns in our newsroom and I don’t remember any of their names, because they just sat there and did what they were told. 

But I remember one intern, who really stood out to me. She wanted to work, she wanted to learn how the system worked. So, be curious and ask questions. Don’t just sit there during your internship and do what you're told. 

I feel like I’ve always had problems doing that in my jobs. I always felt like I was being too demanding, but that’s what you’re there for. Especially in a field like journalism - if people don’t know you’re there then you didn’t really make a good impression. 

Exactly, and you’re going to need to make an impression, because you’re going to need someone to recommend you. Also, don’t ever burn bridges. The journalism world-  as big as it is, it’s tiny. Always standout, no matter what you have to do. Make sure you put yourself on their radar, people will think about you for a future opportunity. 

I remember listening to a podcast from a woman who owns an incredibly successful skincare company, and she was saying that the other part of being proactive and standing out is also developing a skill set. You have to put the work in yourself as well, you have to get really good at your craft. 

In college, try and do what you can in that field. Write for your local newspaper or your college newspaper, work for their radio station. There’s no such thing as too much experience in the journalism world. 

I think it’s also about realizing that not only are you not going to be that great when you start off, but it’s also about not being too prideful, not looking down on certain assignments. 

You have to start somewhere, so don’t ever be too proud. 

Why did you decide to get out of journalism?  

Well, there were several reasons. Unless you make it really big, you do not get paid well at all. So it’s hard to maintain a normal lifestyle with that kind of pay… It also just got way too political. I just felt like I didn’t always have a say into what needed to be covered. I felt like if the bosses at the top wanted something done, then it needed to be done, so that got kind of frustrating. 

I just felt like I put in my 12 years and I just needed to pursue other passions. I love writing, so now I write for big brands at an advertising agency. I still love it, but it’s funny I don’t miss it that much… People in that business have really big heads and you clash a lot with people and it’s really stressful. The job itself is extremely stressful. You’re working weekends and weird hours. It just got very tiring. 

I would think that would give you a ton of really great skills. I personally wouldn’t want that kind of prolonged stress with a job, so that’s amazing that you lasted 12 years. You’re probably so good at thinking on your feet and reacting quickly. 

I love working on a deadline too. I don’t work well if I know I have a lot of time. 

I thrive better in that environment too. I like knowing when something’s due. 

And to be completely honest, I deal with anxiety. I’ve dealt with it for most of my life. Towards the last couple of years of my job I was having anxiety attacks and once I quit my job my anxiety attacks were gone completely. I didn’t even realize it at the time- that it had to do with the job. 

I deal with anxiety too, so I know what you mean. It’s crazy that sometimes those life stressors  can be hard to realize, especially because there were probably parts of the job you did love. And then you get out of those situations and  your stress goes down.

You’re not having an anxiety attack once a week. Some days I would call in and say I wasn’t feeling good. At first I didn’t realize that it was anxiety attacks. 

I think it’s a really hard thing to self-diagnose. When I got them years ago, I didn’t even understand what was going on. Because I had never been around someone with them. I didn’t understand why I couldn’t stop crying… I didn’t even have some traumatic event at the time, I think it was stress that built up over time that then erupted and it was only by googling it and talking to my mom and a friend that I figured it out. 

For me, I would get sick to my stomach. I would get shaky. I couldn’t eat. I couldn’t sleep. I didn’t realize that it was the job, because once I quit.. I can’t tell you the last time I had an anxiety attack. 

Let’s talk about your podcast, Breaking Pita with Zee. When did you decide to start your podcast?

I worked for maybe two months at a smaller talk radio station in Detroit with Amer Zahr, the comedian and he ended up leaving to Palestine for two weeks, so I was kind of on my own. It freaked me out because at my last job as a reporter I only talked for like a minute on the air. This was a two hour show! 

At first I did it with him, which was good, because if I didn’t have something to say he could fill the silence, and then suddenly he was gone and I was on my own. 

So, it was sink or swim time. 

Exactly. I just had to research certain topics, we covered a lot of civil rights topics in Detroit. 

I had always kind of considered doing a podcast, but I was always like ‘What am I going to talk about for like 25 minutes?’ And then one of my friends in NY texted me and said that she discovered me on the air and that she listened to me every morning. 

Well, when they ended up canceling the show on that channel, I was thinking about how I kind of still wanted to be on the air. And then my friend, she's like, just, this is your time, do your podcast. And so I decided to do my podcast Breaking Pita with Z. 

I mean, obviously you’re experienced in journalism, but I know it is one of those things that was obviously like now you're the one responsible for coming up with new topics. 

 My journalism background has helped with that because like I'm very comfortable interviewing people. I'm comfortable with coming up with ideas. I'm comfortable with thinking on my feet. Like if the interview's not going well, I know how to redirect it. 

And even just those two months on the air on that radio talk show. It doesn't sound long, but getting comfortable with myself and learning the difference between journalism and my podcast is journalism is very factual. You cannot tell your opinion unless you're on talk radio. 

Well, yeah, because on a podcast, the last thing you want to listen to is someone just sitting there having no opinion, no thoughts. It's like, why am I listening? So there's someone who tries to say neutral all the time. 

Yeah. Pick, pick a side. And so that's what ended up happening is I've had to like get comfortable in my own skin, like transitioning from that journalism world to more like opinionated, talk radio/podcast world. And I still find myself sometimes holding back.

Why do you find yourself holding back? 

So like 12 years of training of like never, ever voicing my opinion. It's still in the back of my head, you know, because if I had tweeted about not liking the president, I would have gotten fired at my last job. I wasn't allowed to tweet anything... And so sometimes like that fear of getting fired or somebody saying something or like telling on me, like still lives with me. So I have to remind myself, okay, no one gives a crap, say what you want to say. You can't get fired from your own podcast. 

I know you have a journalism background, but do you ever suffer from imposter syndrome? 

My podcast basically is my voice as an Arab-American Muslim woman in America. The things I've seen, the things I've dealt with, obviously, not everybody in my culture or religion deals with or sees the same things as me. And so sometimes I do doubt about talking about certain topics. 

For instance, I think one of my hardest ones was racism in the Arab culture, because I don't want to give us a bad name at all. I don't want non-Arabs or non-Muslims to listen to this and be like, Oh, so like Arabs are all racist against black people or against each other. 

I don't want to create a bad opinion of us, but at the same time, like I want to speak the truth. So I do have doubts like that sometimes. 

You cover a lot of very challenging topics and the topics that I'm sure a lot of people would maybe rather not talk about. It's uncomfortable, but as uncomfortable as it is, it's uncomfortable for the people going through it too. That's why you keep talking about these issues.

So one of the things that I recorded for my second season is about domestic abuse in the culture. And how it's pretty quiet just because of how huge reputation is. But I still recorded it and I'm still gonna put it out. There's a small group and like every group, no matter who it is, there's always that small group that will misrepresent the rest of the culture. 

The more you shine light on these subjects and the easier it becomes, for example, for a woman to get help and to not be embarrassed to leave a bad situation. 

Yeah. So that's what I try to do with my podcast. I mean I haven’t, knock on wood, gotten much negative feedback so far. I do worry sometimes about the backlash, but I think that's a problem in our culture. We worry so much about people's opinions and the backlash about things that we do. One of the reasons that it took me like four years to take my scarf off is because of the backlash that I was afraid of.

And I struggled with my scarf for years, I hated wearing it. Like, it didn't feel like me anymore. And I struggled with it only because I was worried about that backlash.

The other thing I want to talk about is like representation of Arabs and Muslims in the media. 

It's definitely getting a lot better. I feel like, cause I remember like in the nineties when I would turn on the TV and there was a bad guy, like it was always an Arab. And like Arabs were never in a positive light in movies or television shows or like anything.

I was reading about Ramy Youssef, the actor and how he's turned down roles, where he’s said “I'm not going to play a terrorist. I'm not giving in to that stereotype.” And there’ve been other Muslim and Arab actors who've done the same thing. 

But we're still talked about badly in the media; Muslim countries and how we shouldn't be coming over to the US and so on. 

What do you feel is the biggest misconception about Islam and in particular its relationship with woman?

 Probably that women have absolutely no rights at all. There are a lot of government restrictions that have nothing to do with our religion… this idea that women have absolutely no rights, that we have absolutely no voice, that our religion completely takes power away from us and that we're completely oppressed. 

What is it about Detroit or Dearborn that inspires you and what do you wish you could change? 

I feel like honestly there's some really bad ass Muslim and Arab women in Dearborn. we're seeing it a lot more around here. Like everywhere I look there's like a female Muslim entrepreneur. And so I just think that is really cool and that's very inspirational. I think there's an incredible entrepreneurial spirit. 

What does success mean to you?

Fulfilling your passion. Honestly, like even if you don't have to be making money to be successful, I think doing what you absolutely love, taking no shit from anyone and letting nothing hold you back, including yourself. 

It's interesting that you say ‘including yourself’. 

You’re your own biggest critic and you're the wall between you and what's behind that door. 

And I think, especially as an entrepreneur, you have a million times a day where you have self doubt and you're like, what am I doing? I'm not good enough for this. I feel like a lot of women, we overthink things. Like just go do it. 

Just put yourself out there and then you'll see it probably you're gonna have to adjust and pivot 10 million times. I feel like as women, like sometimes from our family or other people who critique us, I feel like we're so worried too about everyone being right about us. 

Like, see, this is why you should just be at home cooking and cleaning all day because you're going to fail as an entrepreneur, you know? But we have to stop giving a shit. 

Oh yeah, no, definitely just do it. Just do it. Just put yourself out there. Who's your biggest inspiration?

I love Ilhan Omar and Michelle Obama. And honestly I get inspired every single day by women that I read about coming out of Metro Detroit, not just Arabs or Muslims, but just by women who've struggled, but yet continue to prove everybody wrong. Like, I feel like those are my biggest inspirations because my own struggles seem so small after that.

Absolutely. I agree with you. I do find that incredibly inspiring.

It's always inspiring to me just because struggles can break you or make you, and I see so much more now of people being made because of their struggles.

 I think women are being a lot more open about it, because I think before it was something so private and you weren't supposed to talk about it. And I feel like now people are finally like, yeah, I did struggle. And here's what I did or here's what helped me. But also like being just honest about it, that not everyday is this perfect highlight reel.

Exactly. Yup. That's always, I'm really happy to like, you know, hear about that as well. And it's also the honesty and openness, especially in a community that's traditionally a bit more like closed off. It can really help other people. 

What are your goals for this upcoming year? 

I have several goals; one is to finish my second season and then publish it and then get started on my third. COVID kind of put me back a little bit.  I actually, like, I want, I want to write a book. 

Oh, that's amazing. What are you going to write about in your book? 

So I'm pretty sure I've told you, but I grew up in a very abusive household. Like my dad was extremely abusive and like told all of us basically that we wouldn't become anything.

And now we have like doctors in the family and an engineer and you know I did something with myself as well  and I proved him wrong. Honestly, like my aim is to inspire anybody else that like you can come out of it. 

I think that's really great. I was very lucky to have a very good childhood and really supportive parents. They always pushed us to get an education and do more and be more. But I think that must be very hard growing up like that. As a kid if you think that you're alone and that no one else is going through the same thing as you, they, it has to be like a terrible feeling of like hopelessness, especially as a teenage girl.

I think that's probably when it was the hardest, as a teenage girl. People are shocked when I tell them about my childhood. I wasn't allowed to listen to music. I wasn't allowed to go to classes after dark. I wasn't allowed to talk to men whatsoever. Like zero communication with men. If my dad saw me talking to someone of the opposite sex, it didn't matter who it was. When I got home I got beat for it.

 But I feel like I still was able to teach myself social skills and I was always just very bullheaded and stubborn.

Not only are you a strong woman, but you also obviously have this belief about creating your own destiny. 

Absolutely. 

That would be amazing for younger girls that are maybe going through something similar to be able to realize they're not alone in this world.

And that they don't need to suffer by themselves. That they can reach out for help and not suffer in silence.

Do you have any tips or resources that you'd recommend? 

 Honestly, I feel like the best thing to do is like to talk to other people because like you're never going to get like someone else's real hardcore experiences through a  book, like connecting with other entrepreneurs. People who've been through it and really like getting an idea of what you're going to deal with.

Or maybe even somebody who can inspire you along the way?

There are going to be moments where you're like, I'm a failure and this sucks. But just to look for other entrepreneurs and get the insight on their raw experiences.

Sometimes other people, who aren’t entrepreneurs, don't understand what you're doing and that can kind of like rub off on you. 

True and then not only do you already suffer from self doubt, but then you like have this other person doubting you. 

Exactly, and that can be really damaging. Having somebody else talk to in that world is probably the best way to go about it.  

Where you can find her: 

Breaking Pita with Zee 

Instagram: @breakingpitawithzee @misszee25